Marc Cohodes’ Last Stand With MiMedX (w/ Grant Williams) | Interview | Real Vision™


Someone’s going to die on this MiMedx hill. And it ain’t gonna be me. I don’t care if I lose money. If I make money, great. But I will take these guys down if it’s the
last thing I do. I am focused on ending and exposing this fraud. Period. 12 months ago, I traveled to a chicken farm
in Sonoma County, California to talk with legendary short seller, Marc Cohodes about
the pressures involved in building a career around his chosen discipline. During that conversation, Marc highlighted
one company which he called the biggest fraud he’d ever seen. I sort of view it like as a cattle drive,
right? You know, I’m going to get my MiMedx cows
from Omaha to Fort Worth. I’m going to get them there. But I may get a couple arrows in my ass on
the cattle drive, right? I just have to make sure I don’t get them
in my back right, right? I mean, I’ve gotten many arrows in my ass. I just don’t want them in my back. So that’s just something you always have to
watch for. But man, I love the cattle drive. I mean, there’s nothing better than a good
old cattle drive to– you feel like you’re getting the job done. Yeah, no kidding. And the thing that’s just like a absolute
pisser is at the end of the day, when this MiMedx is one, two, or three, everyone’s going
to say how easy it was. How obvious it was. Or yeah, that was so simple. Well, let’s talk about MiMedx, because this
is something we’ve mentioned it a lot ready. Let’s tell that story. Let’s go back to the beginning, how it came
on your radar, and just walk us through the story. I’ve followed your Twitter feed, I’ve followed
the presentation. It’s just a fascinating story. The beauty of my MiMedx is I have certain
tells, right? I always say on Twitter that my wig indicator–
literally. CEOs who wear wigs. I think I think I’m 13 out of 14. And this guy, Pete Petit, he sued Capital
Form for writing research. Caught my attention. He sued anonymous bloggers to get their name. Caught my attention. But then on his website, he mentions me and
my former partner, David Rocker. He says I’m a member of a Cali cartel, tax
evader. Believe me, I’m not a tax evader. Money launderer. I’m not one of those. All this stuff. And Carson brought it to my attention, and
my lawyer sent him a letter to take it down, or we will sue you. And when they took it down, sent a letter
saying they took it down, I put it on my Twitter. And Pete Petit has bullied so many women,
former employees, customers, the second I put it out on Twitter–
Him backing down. Him backing down to me, it was almost like
a symbol that Mugabe has been overthrown in Zimbabwe. People got into the streets and celebrated. And that was, I think the sign that there
was a big change. But why do you think he went after you in
the first place? He was stupid, and he bought off on the rhetoric
that I’m this all powerful guy who controls all these skeptics right, and actually believed
in all this wolf pack bullshit rhetoric that’s out there. If he’d seen you in the pink Crocs, then maybe
he wouldn’t have bought into that. If he would have just called me out and said,
what’s going on, that would have been different. But I always say there is no greater motivator
than disrespect. And this guy showed me the ultimate disrespect
by defaming me, and accusing me of a bunch of shit. I figure, if you’re doing something like this,
you have a ton of stuff to hide. And the stuff that has come, Luke’s and my
way, I’ve never seen the amount of evidence of criminal activity, kickbacks, Medicaid,
VA, channel stuffing, revenue recognition bullshit in my year. So when people ask me on Twitter what I think
of MiMedx, first, I said, it’s in my top 20 all time. Then I said it’s in my top 10 all time. Now it’s in my top five. I think their sales are overstated by 70%. I think it’s a criminal operation. I think Pete’s the mastermind behind it. And I think people are going to go to jail
probably him and maybe their general counsel. And they all hassle me and follow me on Twitter
through anonymous things. And threaten me, and this, that, and the other. And it’s just wonderful. So how do you go about– the battle lines
are drawn. They come after you, you push back. Now, you’re starting to get people to come
to you and say, you don’t know the half of it, here’s what’s going on. How do you then build that into something
tangible that you can put a case forward? Well, just this past weekend, someone in Georgia,
a company, was doing business with my MiMedx, and they have proof of revenue recognition
fraud at MiMedx. And there is some lawsuit most people can
search under MiMedx or the plaintiff or the defendant and find things, but in this weird
state court, you need a docket number. So this guy reached out to me, and he said,
you should look up this verse, MiMedx. And I look it, up and a friend who has LexisNexis
looks it up, and someone else looks it up. No, we can’t find shit. This on a Saturday, 10 o’clock Pacific time. So I go back, and I say, I need a case number,
docket number. Gives me the docket number. And we get all this shit. And I spent my Saturday reading his deposition,
reading the complaint, reading the exhibits. And I say, fuck, this stuff is just dynamite. And it’s proof of revenue recognition fraud. It’s proof. So I take it, distill it, rewrite it, highlight
it, keyword it, we put some of it out on the website. Send part of it to the government. Government didn’t know about it. Exhibits, people didn’t know about it. And you start weaving this, and I say to myself,
fuck, if they’re doing it with this guy, who else are they doing it with. And it helps build the mosaic that MiMedx,
which even though they have 90% gross, margins they don’t really make much money, because
it’s an SG&A fraud. They’re kicking back to the doctors through
SG&A. And they’re playing games, giving doctors
stock to create a pod, to create distribute– you know, just all these illegal activities. But none of these are new. These have been going on forever. Exactly. But as I said, there’s only really six frauds. And it’s like primary colors. Again, I wasn’t too good in school. I vaguely remember the primary color thing. But MiMedx is a shade of red, right? I don’t know if it’s crimson or I don’t know
if it’s sunset red. I don’t know exactly what it is. But it’s, get your ass thrown in jail red. I’m playing for keeps here. This is not shorting a stock at 13, and covering
at 9 and then 8. Making four points incentive, god, aren’t
I smart. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is for the whole enchilada, because I
think you’re running a fraud. And my lot in life is exposing people like
you. And this is what I will do. And the deeper you go, and the more you lie,
and put out these bogus press releases, the more I’ll dig in. And that’s what he doesn’t understand, and
that’s what people don’t understand about me. Because at the end of the day, I’ll save the
system money. I’ll save the VA money. I’ll save Medicare money. I’ll save his customers money. Crooked docs may go to jail, like they did
with Insys. I think they’re being investigated by the
DOJ, SEC, VA, HHS, and probably the FDA. That’s speculation on my part, right? The company has yet to put out an 8-K saying
who they’re being investigated by, right? They dance around the thing. I don’t know if they’re going to get raided
tomorrow, a week from tomorrow, a month from tomorrow, or a year from tomorrow. But I play till not only the whistle blows,
I hear it to the echo other whistle. And I’ll keep lobbing stuff over to the government. I’ll keep giving stuff to journalists. I’ll keep the website updated. I’ll keep tweeting about it till this thing
blows. And what they don’t understand is I won’t
stop. A year on, I’m returning to Alder Lane Farm
to hear the full story of Marc’s battle with MiMedx, and get a look behind the headlines
at the pressure and pain that come with taking on a powerful company. And to hopefully demonstrate the important
role that short sellers play in financial markets. Hello, my friend. How’s it going, Grant? Good. Been up too much lately? Been quiet. You know, it’s hard to believe it was a year
ago, a little over a year ago, that you and I walked around Alder Lane farm talking about
the life of a short seller. And during that conversation, you brought
up the MiMedx story, which at that point in time, was kind of new, right? You’ve been looking at it a couple of months
I guess, or a few months. And you made a big bold call about that thing,
which a lot of people aren’t used to seeing people make those kind of calls in public. And I’m here today so we can find out what
happened since, because we’ve all been following in the press and stuff. But I know from my conversations with you
it’s a much bigger, much deeper story. It really is. But I was really looking forward to you guys
coming out here for a long time, and I’m looking forward to the prison party. But there’s something I need to give you. Means a lot to me. Because you were there when this started,
right? Always speak truth to power. This shows that this is not staged, right? There’s nothing in your life that’s staged,
that much I’ve learned about you. Nothing in my life a staged. So Grant, this is from me to you. There’s two of them. One is on my car, and one’s in your hands. Aw man, thank you. Please keep that in pride. This will never be on Ebay, that much I can
promise you. That’s awesome. There are only two of those. And it means a lot, me giving that to you. I’ve always wanted to give it to you from
when this piece of shit hit the wall. Aurora gave me those plates for my birthday. Little did I know what all was going to happen. And also, because MiMedx is an Atlanta based
thing, I want to give you an Ed Roland and friends special holiday shirt. I’m making out like a bandit here, this is
awesome. Thank you very much. You are. Thank you very much. Well, I’m going to put these here for now,
because we got a lot of things to talk about. We sure do. Thank you so much for that. We sure do. But I just wanted to give you that, Grant. Thank you. I really appreciate it. This is going to take pride of place, believe
me. All right, so let’s go back to November 2017,
is when you and I talked about this first. And you know, at the time, you made some bold
calls. And we went away. And we edited the interview, we put it up. And I came to talk to you about short selling,
because it’s something that I’ve always been fascinated by, and it’s something that there
is just an unbelievable misperception about amongst the general public, who who’ve never
done it before. Because guys you have painted as evil short
sellers, and we had this all this stuff with the Cabal. The truth is so different today. And that’s what I want to get into today,
just to show people how much work you have to do to do what you’ve done with this story. What you’ve had to go through last year. And I’m hoping we can persuade Aurora to come
and sit with us for a little part of this, because this is not about one guy on a phone
throwing mud at people. This is about a family going through hell
and trying to expose a fraud, which is ripping off not just investors, but veterans, and
the government, and health insurance agencies. I mean, this was a gigantic fraud. Yeah. And some stuff we’ll share later and talk
about. I call it a 12 step fraud that I and others
exposed. But the crazy part about this is I’m just
a guy. Right. I don’t have a firm. I don’t manage outside money. I manage my money, I manage my son’s money. I’d manage my wife’s money, but she’s so jittery,
I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night. You need a clear mind to be able to do something
as sane as this. But I think at the time, I told you I thought
MiMedx was the biggest pound for pound fraud I’d ever seen. You did. And it’s a bigger fraud now I think by a factor
of five than I thought back then. And the abuse, the threats, intimidation that
I and Aurora, and Max have been part of this past year it’s been absolutely incredible. People don’t know about that. I think they’ll figure it out by the time
we’re done today. But my son Max always says, it’s not what
they call you, it’s what you answer to. And it’s really true. If you do not have a thick skin, an inordinate
amount of confidence in yourself, and your ability to analyze, and fight through adversity,
you have zero chance at this. You have zero chance. And I’m not a ballplayer or a football player
of this type or any other. But I think I know what people like Reggie
Jackson were going through when he’d step up to the plate. He’d have a bunch of people cheering form,
and he’d have a whole lot of people booing them. And I always say there’s no greater motivator
than disrespect. And these MiMedx guys brought out my A game
and then some day. They literally brought out everything I had,
and then some. Stuff that I didn’t even know I was theoretically
capable of, especially at age 58. Because I always say that shorts age in dog
years, so I think the dog years for every one in seven people, so that would make me
essentially 420 years old. But this was the greatest thing I’ve ever
done, and I think I’ve done some decent stuff over time. Well, let’s go back to a year ago. And we won’t rehash how you got dragged into
this thing, because you did get dragged kicking and screaming into this whole situation right
by MiMedx themselves, a decision that I’m sure they all regret seriously at this point. Anyone that wants to catch up on that public
story can go back and watch our original interview, which they should do anyway. But you know, just after we left here, having
filmed that interview, things started getting crazy. Marc was in the house with Max, and two men
approached. And they said they were with the FBI. And my first thought was that someone was
threatening Marc’s life. And I said, OK. You’re so adorable. You missed the whole run up that. It was a Friday midday. And my friend who’s since passed away, Billy
Buckingham, he was fighting cancer for four years at that time. He came up to have lunch with me, which meant
a lot to me, meant a lot to him. And we were talking about my MiMedx. And Max was at the table drinking tea. And Billy I were talking about MiMedx. Now go ahead. And I heard the car, and I was walking out
of the house, and I approached them. And they said they were looking for Marc. And they said they were the FBI, and again,
as I said, I thought that perhaps there was a threat. And I said, do you have some ID? And honestly, I asked because their suits
were so bad that I was concerned. They looked JoS A, Bank centric, those suits. One of them showed me a badge, but didn’t
show me anything else. And I said, stay here, I’ll go get Marc. And they followed me, which irritated me. And I said, stay here. I don’t want his son upset. So I made them stay. And then we invited them in the house because
again, at this point, we were thinking someone was threatening Marc, because that’s typical. You knock on the door, and you say there’s
two guys here to see you. I said, well, tell them I’m busy. I’m here with Billy. And Aurora goes, they’re with the FBI. And I’m thinking, oh, goody, goody, they’ve
finally taken MiMedx information I’ve sent them seriously. I’ll go talk to them. So they came in, and sat down at the table. And Marc sat down with them. And I stood back a little bit. And a young man who was doing some work with
Marc was here also sort of standing off in the background with me. And right away, immediately, they started
with the you need to shut up. I mean, not exactly those words, I’ll let
Marc go into that more specifically. But enough that I was listening very carefully
to what they were saying. They said, you need to quit tweeting about
Mr. Petit. And I’m like thinking, what the hell? So at this point, suddenly, you–
I’m like, thinking, what the hell? First of all, I said, do I need to call my
lawyer? And they said, no, no, you shouldn’t call
your lawyer. They said, you need to stop tweeting about
Mr. Petit. And Aurora is sort of standing in the foreground. Actually, what I started doing, when this
was the line of conversation, I started taking pictures. I walked behind one of them, and I flipped
open his wallet. His ID was on the table, and I flipped it
open. I’m thinking, this can’t be a real FBI agent. He wouldn’t let me touch his things. And at this point I think, Marc and I both
were thinking they were fake FBI.

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